clap your hands if you’re bisexual, asexual, or any other sexual and get erased by both the heterosexual and homosexual community
insassingaround said: Otherwise a very cute wedding but white ladies jumping the broom is severely not ok
um I’m pretty sure that there are references to jumping the broom in early England… like, there are Celtic traditions that used jumping the broom… and then I’m pretty sure there are also Welsh and Romani references to this practice… so… if you’re implying that this is culturally appropriative I don’t know why you are telling ME because I didn’t do it.
this is literally the first time I’ve ever heard of this being an issue
Growing up in Britain I can attest it’s a tradition there. My Scottish grandfather and others were those who referred to getting married as “jumping the broom” because it is a Celtic tradition even if they don’t necessarily jump an actual broom during their ceremony.
My husband and I did a handfasting with cords during our marriage ceremony to represent that aspect of my culture and faith. I’m too unsteady/disabled to jump a broom without breaking my neck, so we didn’t do that. We also had bible readings and a Christian blessing because my husband is Catholic.
I recently discovered this amazing group, the creative collective, started by Melyssa over at the nectar collective. Every first and third Wednesday of the month they do something creative and share it.
This week’s assignment was to watch a documentary. I have to admit, when I put on The Punk Singer I really had no idea what I was in for, but I was more than willing to take to the ride.
Anonymous said: I don't feel like the articles concerns me directly because you didn't touch on close relationship of Christianity & Colonization, and erasure of many Indigenous/Meso-American/West African beliefs, inclusively that continues to happen. Missions continuing to go my homes Mexico & Guatemala to convert Ingenious/Garifuna groups to Christianity. So while you can choose to have no animosity towards them, some of us have just reasons to feel anger. Also you probably were not raised in the biblebelt.
I’m actually really glad you brought that up. While I was writing these it occurred to me that I wasn’t acknowledging and was really glossing over that exact thing: Christianity and it’s connection to colonization, imperialism and ethnocentrism. I have a very huge problem with these things, and much of Christianity conversion has been connected to them.
When I talked about convertors and their concern over the pagan converts continuing to practice some of their old pagan traditions it occurred to me that I wasn’t fully going into the full complexity and other side of it. Why did they care about that? Well, because they were ethnocentric assholes who thought that theirs was the only good, correct and “civilized” culture/religion/language, etc. They went around trying to force people to be like them in every regard, erasing their unique culture, often forcing them to speak their own language and considering those people’s culture/religion/language, etc. lowly and dirty, even to the point where they sometimes convinced the people themselves that this was so.
I keep saying everything in slashes because I personally believe that all of these different aspects of a people: their language, culture, religion, political system, etc. are all intimately connected and intertwined. You can’t just cut one off and try to replace it with something else without changing the whole thing. And it will never fit in, as hard as you try, exactly like you expect it to. Missionaries ultimately always failed at completely erasing everything about another culture and replacing it with their own. Each culture that has converted to Christianity has done so slightly differently and often incorporated some of their own ideas and practices to some extent or another.
Now I’m not gonna lie, that entire ethnocentric, imperial, colonialist enterprise is something that I really hate. It pisses me off and saddens me and all kinds of things. And yeah, actually, I am offended on behalf of my ancestors, regardless of whether they converted willingly or not. And that’s just me considering my European ancestors. Non-Europeans and POC in general faced it on a whole other level and have a right to be a whole different level of pissed off. And you’re right, my posts weren’t really directed at them. Because they’re not usually the ones saying foolish things and it has never occurred to me to tell them they shouldn’t be pissed off or offended.
I didn’t grow up in the biblebelt, no, but I did grow up around right-wing, Christian extremists in the US. I also spent part of my childhood growing up in the Caribbean. And while I was there I learned quite a bit about what happened there in relation to both Europeans and Americans. I saw it (or its manifestation in the present anyway) and studied it and came to understand it on an intimate level (even if I can’t really know what it’s been like for them from their perspective). And I can tell you that it really, really pisses me off and I think all of the anger and bitterness that is felt by them is completely understandable and justified.
What I’m saying might seem to go completely against what I said in my last post, but I don’t think it necessarily does. For the most part my point was that we can’t consider “Christians” a monolithic group that we can all hate and blame for everything. I think it’s fair to have a serious problem with those ethnocentric, colonialist, Christians douchebags. But we also have to count under the label of “Christians” our ancestors who converted. And how can we act like they’re the villains in any of this?
When people say “Christians stole our holiday” and things like that they’re considering “Christians” a monolithic, villainous group of invaders and it’s not as simple as that. And those condescending invaders didn’t steal anything. They had no interest in stealing pagan practices because they had no respect for them. It was the pagans who continued to practice them as Christians. They were their own to keep practicing and therefore no one stole them.
I fully admit “The Christians Did Not Steal Your Anything” is a bit of a sweeping statement. Because, let’s be honest, some Christians have definitely stolen things. Some of them have stolen indigenous people’s land, for example.
But I don’t think it makes any sense to hold all of that against the Christians around us if they had no personal involvement in it. And I think a lot of times neo-pagans want to act like the Christians who live around them are all the descendents of the invaders when in fact, depending on where you live, its likely that lots if not most of them are actually the descendents of the people who were converted. So acting like it’s something that “they” did to “us” is a bit ridiculous on multiple levels. They’re part of “us.” They may have the same history that we have. Their ancestors may have even had it worse than ours. They’ve just decided to continue with Christianity anyway and others haven’t. (Though I have to add that sometimes people can be both the converted and the invaders. Like how the English were originally converted to Christianity and then invaded the Americas. Oftentimes the converted become the the new convertors. And obviously people have lots of mixed ancestry. It’s complicated.)
While it’s true that all this ethnocentric douchebaggery is and was going in, I think it’s far too easy to jump to an over-simplified “us” versus “them” and “victims” versus “villains.” When a privileged, white, Western neo-pagan no longer is interested in Christianity and suddenly wants to act like they and their ancestors were unequivocally the victims and the monolithic, villainous “Christians” are/were stealing all of their treasured practices… well, it gets to be a bit ridiculous. If we’re talking indigenous people who are pissed off about cultural and religious appropriation, though, that’s a whole other story.
I also personally don’t think it’s okay to go around telling people whose ancestors were converted that they should stop being Christians. While Christianity definitely had a hand in oppression, at the same time there were reasons that it appealed to a lot of people and became extremely meaningful and important to them. Non-Christians might not all be able to relate to that or understand why, but it’s undeniable. And while it had a hand in oppression there are also lots of groups and cultures that transformed it into their own thing, transformed it and used it in empowering ways. And to those groups and cultures Christianity is now extremely important to them and is something that they’ve made their own. No one has any right to accuse them of stealing anything and no one has any right to tell them they should give that up. It starts to seem like an endless stream of harassment, of people telling these people what they should believe and what religion they should have when really they should be letting them believe what they want and leaving them the hell alone. It’s like they had their own culture and religion and that was attacked and to an extent successfully robbed from them, and then they managed to find power in it and made a religion and culture of their own from it anyway and then people are once again telling them to give up the culture they’ve settled into and created, even if like vines running around and through something foreign. If they personally find Christianity distasteful for these reasons and choose to try to reconstruct their pre-Christian beliefs or something else then I think that’s great and I support them. But I’m not going to tell them what they should be doing or believing or what religion they should be practicing. To me that would just seem like continuing the cycle of disrespect.
I know I probably seem to be going off on tangents here way beyond your points and I’m quite sure I don’t need to tell you specifically any of this. But I just wanted to take this opportunity in responding to your ask to address these issues in general. Because the whole point of my posts was to try to stop the foolishness and to understand the truth more complexly. And you’re right, I need to add this in order to do that. So thank-you for calling me out on it and bringing it up!
(This ask is in relation to This Post.)